Episode 11

"There's Our Guy"

Original Air Date    01.16.2017

In This Episode

Payne and Maurice try to figure out who’s behind the “George Harrison” Facebook account, including a conversation for Troy Davis who was Facebook friends with him. A forensic psychology professor visits the podcast to discuss the history of murderers who have chosen to insert themselves into investigations of their own crimes. Finally, Payne and Donald visit a private investigator’s office in Atlanta and learn the identity of “George Harrison.”

“The project of Payne Lindsey will be a success. I will make sure of that.” - "George Harrison"

People in this Episode

Troy Davis
Irwin County’s former school superintendent hosted the barbecue that Tara attended on the night of her disappearance.

Troy Davis

Friend who hosted the BBQ on the night of Tara's disappearance

Dr. Maurice Godwin
Private forensic detective who investigated Tara’s disappearance, beginning in 2006. He investigated her home and firmly believed there were signs of foul play.

Dr. Maurice Godwin

Private Forensic Detective

“So many of these individuals follow the investigation because they want to know what the police know to satisfy their own anxiety.” - Dr. Louis Schlesinger


Rob: Previously on Up and Vanished ...

Payne Lindsey: On the form for Tara Grinstead, on May 11, 2008 someone posted, "Jim Hickey, software salesman from Atlanta who took Tara to dinner in early October 2005." Did he visit Tara the Friday before she disappeared? Who is Jim Hickey?

Jim Hickey: There's somebody down there that's got a lot more information than I've got. Whether they're willing to talk about it or not is a whole 'nother issue. Small towns have a way of covering shit up.

Maurice Godwin: You have to take these emails cumulative. A lot of people who have problems transfer the issues they had as a child into adulthood. It's the fear of rejection, the fear of abandonment. The attachment to him was more than just an attachment of a relationship. Marcus plays some of the role in her behavior toward him, too. There's no doubt about that.

Payne Lindsey: Tara's sister said the glove was blue, not white.

Anita Grinsted: I don't trust that glove. That glove don't mean shit to me. It could be changed out. It was a blue latex glove, and I'm not even sure that the one they have now is blue.

Payne Lindsey: The Nancy Grace Show aired a series of live interviews. Nancy interviewed Tara's neighbor, Joe Portiere. During the interview, Joe revealed a very crucial piece of information.

Joe Portier: I walked back to the front porch, talking to the chief of police on my cell phone, and that's when I spied the latex glove. It was actually before the police got there.

Payne Lindsey: Since the first time I met with Dr. Godwin about this case, he's told me about this mysterious black truck.

Person who saw the Black Truck: It was like a Ford Ranger. It deep chrome wells in it. I was headed to Moshe's house, a friend of mine.

Payne Lindsey: Do you know if Moshe saw the person?

Person who saw the Black Truck: Yes, sir. He could describe him for you. He’s scared to  talk about it. Because the last time we were cooperating, he pissed test positive for marijuana. And they sent him to jail.

Payne Lindsey: Heath Dikes drove a black truck.

Maurice Godwin: Yup. Like 90s black truck.

Payne Lindsey: When I first started digging around in this case, right before I even released the first episode of the podcast, Maurice started getting weird messages on Facebook from a fake account. And the creepy thing was, the messages were about me. The name on this fake Facebook profile was George Harrison. Someone was watching me very closely.

Maurice Godwin: The thing that concerns me is, this might be somebody that has some information. As far as you know, you don't any knowledge of who this is.

Payne Lindsey: Zero knowledge.

Intro: Ten years ago today, marked the last time anybody could have seen [crosstalk]

Officially, police are calling this a missing persons case.

Payne Lindsey: For Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is Up and Vanished. The investigation of Tara Grinstead. I'm your host, Payne Lindsey.

This whole thing started in June of 2016. Around that time I was just starting to reach out to people to interview for the podcast. And Maurice and I had been talking for a few months at that point. Up and Vanished was still just an idea. That's it.

I was out to dinner one night with my fiance in early June. I got a missed call and voicemail from Dr. Godwin.

Maurice Godwin: Payne, Dr. Godwin, here at 8:30. You need to touch base with me if you can to exchange this information. I'll talk to you later. Bye. Bye.

Payne Lindsey: For the first time Maurice seemed to have a serious tone with me. Whatever it was, it sounded urgent.

I was about a 15 minute drive to my apartment from the restaurant. And I decided to wait until I got home to call him back, but before I could get there, Maurice called again.

Maurice Godwin: I'm talking about that ... The new message that's on Tara's site.

Payne Lindsey: There's a Facebook page called "What Happened to Tara Grinstead" and it's full of supporters seeking justice in this case. Like any Facebook page, visitors can make a post on the wall. Maurice was talking about the most recent post from a man named George Harrison.

Maurice Godwin: It's the first post up there. You don't see it, with three comments?

Payne Lindsey: I couldn't see it.

Maurice Godwin: So he's blocked you, too, then. He's blocked three or four of my friends. A friend of mine just posted on there awhile ago. And he blocked her.

Payne Lindsey: I tried logging into Facebook with my fiance's account and went back to the same page. This time I could see George Harrison's post. It said, "Has anyone heard about the new Tara Grinstead documentary called Up and Vanished?"

Maurice Godwin: Do you read ... You read what he said. How does he know? How does that person know that statement that you read?

Payne Lindsey: He was right. How did George Harrison know the name Up and Vanished because at that point I hadn't told anybody. Nobody even knew about this yet.

Maurice Godwin: Well, it's advertisement.

Payne Lindsey: For who?

Maurice Godwin: You.

Payne Lindsey: That doesn't make any sense.

Maurice thought that George Harrison was one of my friends trying to promote the documentary but I assured him, that was not the case. But he didn't really believe me. I mean, how else did they know the name Up and Vanished? I didn't have an answer for that. Somehow that name got out there, but I have no clue how.

I did my best to convince Maurice I had nothing to do with this. And we started looking at George Harrison's profile a little deeper.

His Facebook friends were hidden on his profile, so if he had any we couldn't see them. His profile picture was a low quality, black and white photo of five Hispanic girls who looked like sisters. It was becoming clearer that George Harrison probably wasn't a real person.

Maurice Godwin: It's a fake Facebook account. That profile picture was one taken from a Spanish site. He changed his profile picture, too.

He's put that one with the headset. He's put that up as the profile picture.

Payne Lindsey: Shortly after we started digging around, he changed his profile picture to a white guy with brown hair and a beard. He looked to be maybe in his late 20s.

Maurice Godwin: Somebody has fed something to him about the picture being from the Spanish website or something so he's changed it to one you can't find. I've searched for all those pictures in there. Even the highlighting just the facial area and there is absolutely no matches anywhere on Google or anywhere.

Payne Lindsey: We tried every single reverse image search tool on the internet. There wasn't a single match for George Harrison's new profile picture.

His profile now said he was from Seattle, Washington, but that he lives in Blackshear. Georgia, which is about an hour and a half southeast of Ocilla.

Maurice Godwin: As far as you know, you don't have any knowledge of who this is?

Payne Lindsey: Zero knowledge.

With no luck on George Harrison's real identity, I told Maurice that he should message him. So he did. Maurice sent George Harrison that said, "I've been working on the Tara Grinstead case for her family for 10 years. Do you have information on the case?" A few minutes later, George Harrison responded and said, "Who the hell are you?" He replied saying, "My name is Dr. Maurice Godwin. My name has been associated with this case since the beginning." Two hours later, George Harrison replied back.

He said, "The project of Payne Lindsey will be a success. I will make sure of that." Maurice said, "Depends on getting the correct information. And right now, that's pretty hard to do in a 10 year old case." George Harrison replied, "Payne Lindsey will solve this case."

Maurice Godwin: The thing that concerns me is, this might be somebody that has some information. Why do they have to hide their identity? I don't understand why they just don't come out and say who they are? It's nothing but chaos. It doesn't move the case forward. It's just nothing but negative, negative, negative. I mean, it's just weird what they wrote?

Payne Lindsey: This guy is posting about my documentary using my name and my documentary's name, but he also blocked me, so I couldn't see if he's even doing that on Facebook. Technically, without you telling me, I wouldn't even know.

Maurice Godwin: Well, I don't know. I don't know. There's something that nefarious going on why somebody has to hide their identity. They don't have the guts. I mean, if I was so enthralled about something, I'd just post it myself, wouldn't you?

And see I've been told by a number of people that I need to get it off my shoulder so nobody won't say that nothing was done. Somebody could accuse me saying, "You knew this all along and you didn't do anything?"

Payne Lindsey: There's always a couple reasons why someone would do this. One, this person is just crazy obsessed with the case and he's just getting some sort of enjoyment out of posting about this just to stir some stuff up. That's definitely possible. Or two, he knows something and maybe he plans on giving me some sort of information at some point.

Maurice Godwin: If he's gonna give you something, you need it as soon as possible, right? You know? It sounds like he's got some sort of information to provide to help solve it. He made the statement to me that he's gonna make sure you will solve this case.

Payne Lindsey: It's weird, man.

A few days later, George Harrison made another post. It said, "This podcast will help move the case forward." Who the hell was George Harrison? And why was he doing this?

I was quickly running out of ways to figure out who this was, but one thing about all of his messages stood out to me. They were all lower case and they often had weird typos and awkward spacing. Almost like a kid wrote it. Or someone was trying to intentionally disguise themselves.

Maurice Godwin: It could be off of a phone where sometimes the inserts there, and you don't just space them you're supposed to.

Payne Lindsey: You know I had an idea how to flush this guy out.

Maurice Godwin: How is that?

Payne Lindsey: Well, you initially I was talking about doing the podcast first. I wonder how much this would stir up if there was a podcast episode on iTunes talking this George Harrison person.

Maurice Godwin: I don't know, man. That's your call.

Payne Lindsey: They're obviously getting some sort of enjoyment out of doing this right now. I bet they'd have even more enjoyment when someone's talking about this.

Maurice Godwin: Then I think that's what you should do then.

Payne Lindsey: So that's what I'm doing now. Calling him out on a podcast. It's no longer a big secret. Now we all know about George Harrison.

This person would log onto Facebook for few hours everyday at random times. And when he logged off, he would deactivate the Facebook account. So the messages and posts would just disappear.

This went on for several weeks. All before I released or announced the podcast. George Harrison's friends were hidden on Facebook so we couldn't see them. But Maurice had an idea. HE spent several days going through every single person in Tara's case he could think of and checking their Facebook friends to see if George Harrison was in there. And believe it or not, George Harrison was friends with somebody in this case.

His name was Troy Davis. He's the guy who had the barbecue that night Tara disappeared. The barbecue was at his house. Troy Davis was also the school superintendent of Irwin County where Tara was a teacher. The barbecue at his house that night, was the last known place that Tara was seen alive.

Maurice Godwin: He showed up on Troy's Facebook. Yeah. I think you're ... You might be on to something. I sure do.

Payne Lindsey: So Maurice messaged Troy about this. And asked him why he was friends with George Harrison on Facebook and if he knew who he was. Troy responded and said that eh got a message from him too and that maybe he just accepted his friend request by accident. Maurice asked Troy to send him a screenshot of the message and he did.

The message Troy got from George Harrison said this, "Tara Grinstead was a great teacher and you were a great superintendent in Irwin county." He sent the message twice.

At this point in time, nobody else knew of my relationship with Dr. Godwin. At least I hadn't told anybody. So I told Maurice to send George Harrison a message and act like he didn't know who I was. Maurice messaged him and said, "I don't know a Payne Lindsey." Then George Harrison replied right back and said, "Troy and Payne Lindsey knows who I am." This whole George Harrison thing was only getting weirder.

At first, I was leaning towards the idea that this was just some crazy person that somehow found out about my documentary. And this was all a big joke. But that was seeming less and less likely. But would a killer really do this? Risk getting caught after 11 years by sending a Facebook message to guy doing a documentary on Tara? Why would they be so stupid?

After doing some research, I found that sometimes, surely not most of the time, but sometimes killers purposely inject themselves into an investigation by overly cooperating with the police or even talking to reporters. One, example of this I found is a case from Macon, Georgia back in 2011.

Steven Lee Daniel: Nope. No. No one has seen her since Saturday. I haven't seen anything. I always hear noise outside, but it's just people walking by pretty much. She's as nice as can be. I mean, very personable. Very much a people person. We don't know where she is. I mean, the only thing we can this is maybe she went out running and someone snatched her. [crosstalk]

Payne Lindsey: This is Steven Lee Daniel being interviewed by a reported in Macon, Georgia about a local college student, Lauren Giddings, his next door neighbor whose gone missing.

Steven Lee Daniel: She has door jam that was sitting by-[crosstalk]

Payne Lindsey: But things were about to take a weird turn.

Little does he know, the police just discovered Lauren's body. He's about to find out on live television.

Steven Lee: We just don't know where she is.

News reporter: What about in the parking lot area? I know they've been doing a lot of ... I think that's where they recovered the body or whatever they recovered from there.

Steven Lee: Body?

News reporter: Had you heard any-[crosstalk]

Payne Lindsey: The word body echoes through his head. And he freezes up on camera like a deer in headlights.

News reporter: I mean, we don't know if this is the same person. Are you okay, sir?

Steven Lee : I think I need to sit down.

News reporter: Okay.

Payne Lindsey: The Macon police saw this same video. And within a few hours he was in custody.

Police officer: Why'd you do it, Steve? You hurt that girl. Yes, you did, Steven. How long are we gonna continue to do this? You did.

Payne Lindsey: Eventually, Steven McDaniel pled guilty to the murder of Lauren Giddings and is currently serving life in prison.

This idea that killers stay close to an investigation, with no fear of looking suspicious or getting caught, is completely fascinating. And it's also kind of alarming. I wanted to learn more about the phycology behind this. How do killers act before they get caught, when they're just walking among us?

Dr. Schlesinger: Well, I'm Dr. Schlesinger. I'm a professor of forensic psychology at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. And I have also been a practicing forensic psychologist for 41 years.

The first thing you have to establish is that all murder is not alike. There's different motivations. There's different clinical pictures. There's different courses and there's different outcomes.

So for example, some murders are a direct result of a psychosis. God tells you to kill and you kill. That's very, very easy to understand. Some murder is sexually motivated. Most murder is a result of situational stressful factors. In fact, the prototype of the most common murder is found in the Bible in the Cain, Abel murder case.

If you look at Cain Abel murder case in detail, you'll learn about 50 to 60% of everything you need to know about murder. Cain killed his brother, Abel. There's a close relationship between offender and victim. He killed him because of jealousy. God liked Abel's offering better than he liked Cain's offering. It was a direct violent assault. He rose up and slew him. And most importantly, when the killer is confronted with wrong doing, he lies. God asked Cain, "Where is your brother, Abel?" And he lied to God. He said, "I know not. I'm not my brother's keeper." That's the prototype of the vast majority of murders.

And those individuals who kill a loved one, a domestic homicide, an argument, that type of thing, they're apprehended fairly quickly. The mentally disordered offender, the psychotic people, the ones ... That type things, they don't follow the investigation. They live in their own world.

But somebody's who more intact, more intelligent, very often does follow the progress of the investigation. Sometimes they inject themselves into the investigation, which often leads to their apprehension. And other times they do things like make themselves a victim, which brings themselves to the attention of law enforcement.

Many times, an individual thinks that they can control the investigation. They think they're smarter than law enforcement. And in their mind, their thinking, "Well, if he really did it, why would he come to law enforcement? Why would give an interview? It obviously shows his guilt." And nothing could be farther from the truth.

To give you an example, or an analogy, it's like a third party discovery of a body. An individual kills his child in an emotional state. Shaken baby or whatever and they arrange a neighbor to find the body. "Look in the basement. Behind the wheelbarrow. A little further back. Oh it's there." And they think that if it's a third party that discovered it distances themselves, somehow, from the murder. Nothing can be further from the truth.

So many of these individuals follow the investigation because they want to know what the police know to satisfy their own anxiety. And many of them think that their smarter than law enforcement. They can control the investigation by getting close to it.

I had case in New Jersey, this guy killed, in New Jersey, two women. Killed another person while he was in prison in Florida. But because the women were killed and they were abducted from malls and they were young people and so on, there was a tremendous amount of immediate attention at that time. What this guy did was he self inflicted a wound, went to police station, and he said that he was attacked by the offender that everybody's looking for. Trying to get into the police station to talk to them to find out they knew. He, obviously, became an immediate suspect and we was linked, not by what he said, but by hair and fiber and tire tracks and so on. So those things happen. The police are very, very aware of that.

The famous case is Dennis Rader, the BTK killer. The case was cold for 30 years. What happened is, a citizen in Kansas wrote a book on the BTK killer and that triggered Dennis Radar's narcissism because he wasn't getting the credit for this. He then started communicating with the police, which almost always leads to the individual getting apprehended. He was not apprehended for 30 years. And he was highly intelligent, a college graduate. Majored in criminal justice. The case went cold for 30 years, he got involved in the again by contacting the police and he was arrested. Now he's in prison.

As a general composition, most victims who get killed know the offender. That's just what the vast majority of murders are. They're people closely connected with someone. There's a lot of emotionality in the connection between offended and victim. Most people don't kill the toll collector on the turnpike. There's no emotion there.

Now with your particular case, the Georgia case. She was a very, super attractive beauty queen. And it would not surprise me at all if somebody was obsessed with her in some sort of way. The murder may have occurred spontaneously or it could have been planned. It's just very difficult to know from a distance what that is. I mean, could she have been abducted by a total stranger? Yes, but it ... Statistically it's a rare event. Probably the police interviewed this individual perhaps multiple times, but they just didn't have enough to go on or they didn't get anywhere with the individual.

One other important point I think needs to be made here, very often the media creates an image of somebody whose alluded apprehension, like your guy for example, as an evil genius, an expert in deception, a master of disguise, of high intelligence. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you have a complicated explanation or a simple explanation, it's always the simple explanation.

I was involved in a case down in Baton Rogue, Louisiana. This is about 15 years ago. He killed who knows how many people. Maybe 40 or something. But it seems that he entered the house without breaking into it because there was no evidence of any forced entry. And either the woman was abducted or the woman was left there and killed, but there was no broken window or broken door or this sort of thing.

And so the theories that developed out of that was he was a master of disguised. He was disguising himself as a police officer. You know what it turned it out to be? He said he went up to a door, and he knocked on the door and said, "My car broke down. Can I use your phone?" If the woman said, "No. It's out of order." He just left. If the woman said, "Okay." He just came in, dialed his own number. After about 10 minutes you can determine if there's a male at home that poses a threat. There's no male, then you just kill the person. He wasn't any genius at all. He did something very, very simple.

In your case, it's probably a simple explanation for this.

News reporter 2: When the first of two videos went online, the GBI immediately got involved.

News reporter 3: He, himself, is claiming that he's killed 16 people the way I understood the video and he was giving clues as to one of his victims. And that victim ... The clues that were offered were those that appear very specific to Tara Grinstead.

News reporter 2: Tara Grinstead vanished from Irwin County in October 2005. The clues were unmistakably about her.

Andrew Scott Haley: Don't try and chase me. Don't try to catch me.

News reporter 2: They almost immediately traced the videos back to defendant, Andrew Scott Haley, in Hall County and confronted him. He confessed he made the videos. And even showed the agents where he placed his camera on a shelf in a bathroom closet to shot them.

News reporter 4: And he stated, essentially, that it was a game. That he was trying to get as many hits as he could on his YouTube website.

Payne Lindsey: We've seen this before in this case. Someone taunting the police in the media with clues about Tara Grinstead, but it turned out to be a hoax. Is George Harrison just another sick person, playing a game with me? Or does he have some information for us?

Months later, after I started this podcast, I got a call from a private investigator in Georgia. He asked that I not use him name, but he said he has something to tell me.

Private Investigator: Alright. First of all, about a year ago, someone came to our office who was one of Tara Grinstead's student. He just like, "I always wondered what happened and the things I hear in town, are different from what the law enforcements coming up with." It's like he was smart, but he was smart about the case. He didn't seem like the brightest guy, but he was smart like he knew ... He's obviously been thinking about it for the last 10 years so he knew what to say when he came to see us.

This guy had some theories about what happened, but he was never ... He just didn't know. And that's why he was coming to us.

All this happened about a year ago. I don't know the exact date when this guy came in, but I wanna say it was a year ago.

Payne Lindsey: This kid sounded sketchy to me. We agreed to meet up in person to discuss it further after my wedding, which was the following weekend.

Private Investigator: Alright, man. Payne, good luck to you this weekend, man. Have a great wedding and we'll see ya on Tuesday.

Payne Lindsey: Before Tuesday came around, he tried reaching out to the kid again. Things got pretty interesting. So he called me with some updates.

Private Investigator: We had the original number on the intake form that he filled out. We called that number, didn't work. We did a search on him, had another number on him, didn't work. We called his mother, numbers didn't work. So I told Robin. I said, "Hey. Look. None of these numbers are working. Like he's been hiding and hiding for some reason." And all of a sudden she sends me some numbers. She's like, "I just talked to him. Call him at this number." I was like, "Oh. Okay."

Payne Lindsey: So he finally found the new number for this kid and he called him. The kid answered. He agreed to meet him in person again on Tuesday. The same day I was going to be there.

Private Investigator: Well, at first, he says, "Hey. I'm definitely coming." He said, "I'll be there." So it was after a good five minute conversation kind of explaining what you're doing and at the end of the conversation he's like, "Well, yeah. I know who he is. I've seen some of his stuff. And I know he's communicating with the private investigator in North Carolina." And I was like, "Look." I said, "He's just getting information from that PI." I was like, "That's what we do." And he's like, "Okay." He said, "Well, okay. I'll be there. I'll go ahead and be there." And so we hung up at that point.

And then he started sending me text messages saying, "Hey. I'd like to talk to him." Meaning you.

This is what he says, "Is there any way I can talk to him like today?" And I said, "I'll ask. Just FYI he got married yesterday. I don't know if he can talk too much today." And he said, "Okay. Thanks."

Do you think he may be up to something, or?

Payne Lindsey: I had this gut feeling that this kid was George Harrison. So I told him the whole story to see what he thought.

Longs story short, like months ago before I even announced the podcast, actually, this person made a fake Facebook account, or somebody did. And he said, "Has anybody heard about the new series called 'Up and Vanished'?" This person, whoever it is, kept saying, "Payne Lindsay will solve this case. Payne Lindsay's going to solve this case."

The first profile picture was like of these Spanish girls, but one more thing that was odd though about all the messages he sent, they were all like sloppily written. They were all always lower case. Sometimes two spaces in between a word.

Private Investigator: Really?

Payne Lindsey: He told me this kid was Hispanic and that his text messages were worded exactly the same. Just how I'd described them.

Private Investigator: As a matter of fact, I'll send ya the screen shot. You know? I wonder why he said that either he thinks you're on the right track or he thinks you're getting too close to him.

Maurice Godwin: When they're all people are, for no reason, become so obsessed with a case, that it actually ruins their life. There's been a number of PIs, one that help the Natalee Holloway case, who actually wrote a book about it. Natalee Holloway.

I'd say there's been about 10 PIs that's been approached about Tara's case. You're asking them about looking into it and stuff like that, and nobody will touch this case.

There was a guy out of Macon, Georgia. He got involved. He called and talked to me for about three weeks. And he called me. He said, "Alright. I'm not dealing with this no more." And I'm can tell you why. People have to invest money and time and effort and everything into any case they go in to try to do something on. Here's the word, trample on.

When a case has been trampled on so much, I won't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

Payne Lindsey: Tuesday came around and my friend Donald and I went to the investigator's office in Atlanta.

Secretary: Hello.

So, okay. So y'all wanna have a seat.

Payne Lindsey: Yeah.

Secretary: Okay. Your name?

Payne Lindsey: Payne.

Secretary: Payne.

Payne Lindsey: Before we were allowed in, they make copies of both of our IDs. Then we met in a conference room.

We met with another investigator in there as well. She was the first person to receive contact from this kid and she told us her story.

Private Investigator 2: He told me that he didn't speak very good English when he came to Georgia. And that Tara was his teacher and helped him speak English. And that was his genuine story to me.

Payne Lindsey: Okay.

Private Investigator 2: Now, have I validated that? No. Have I been hired by him? No. Has he shared a lot of information? Yes. What is his ... You know, at this point everybody's a suspect. My concern is is that I don't know what was done right or wrong. I don't know why he's obsessed with this.

Payne Lindsey: Yeah.

Private Investigator 2: Okay. I had teachers in my life that I probably wouldn't have gone to this length for, but I mean, I'm sure if we can find her annuals. Somebody must have all the people she's taught-

Payne Lindsey: Yeah.

Private Investigator 2: ... In 7th grade. Okay and his name is there, that might be good or bad thing, but validate that friendship.

Did she go over to his house, he go over to her house? And, I don't know. I mean, he told me after that grade or their finished that he didn't see her anymore.

Payne Lindsey: Yeah.

Private Investigator 2: You know? And he just felt, when it came on the news, he felt very bad. He never paid us any money. He was never a client. Okay? So I don't know what he's done or not done. I just know he has few clues, a few theories, but unless we can verify that relationship, it bothers me.

Well, I'm confused that I had a number for him forever. Forever, okay? He always answered my calls. I call it, it's disconnected. I told Rebecca, find his mother. Found somebody and I left a message. I said, "Look. I don't know who you are, but I'm looking for this person and I think it's your son. It's important. Tell him to call me."

Payne Lindsey: Right.

Private Investigator 2: I didn't hear anything. The next you know, like Sunday, he calls. He says, "Hey." And I'm like, "What's wrong with you? Why are you changing all your numbers and stuff? What's going on?" "Well, I've made a few people upset." I said, "Yeah. You seem to do that a lot. Okay? So, I don't know what's wrong with you, but there's an issue here. So, there's somebody gonna be at my office on Tuesday that wants to give this case some attention. It can't hurt, okay? Can't hurt at all, so let's get together." "Oh okay. I'll see ya." I says, "Okay, well then I'll see. Are you gonna come or you not gonna come? So I don't know what wrong with you."

I don't know if he cared about her so much that he's just obsessed with the case.

Payne Lindsey: I'll tell you one thing that was always weird with all of his messages, were all lower case and like typed funky. Well, you showed me a screenshot of the text with him.

Private Investigator: Yeah. [crosstalk]

Payne Lindsey: It looks just like his messages.

Private Investigator: Yep.

Donald: If you can speak English, you can't necessarily write or type it out as well. And I know this because, my gardener, he always tells me, "Call me." Because even if I do text him, he never replies. He always just calls back. He just says he  does better speaking directly. So, that definitely goes to your theory.

Payne Lindsey: Yeah.

Private Investigator 2: Uh-huh (affirmative.)

Private Investigator: It's weird. I find it ... I wasn't really too concerned about him until he just decided not to show up. [inaudible 00:35:44]

Because what does he got to hide?

The whole phone number thing.

Payne Lindsey: Let's just try to call him.

Private Investigator: Well, actually I don't know if we should call him, because we want to be able to-

Payne Lindsey: I can call him.

The kid had agreed to meet with the private investigator that day, but it didn't look like he was coming. Needless to say, I didn't have any patience left. So they gave me his number and I called him myself in front of everybody.

Automated voice: Verizon Wireless. The number you dialed has been changed, disconnected or is no longer in service.

Payne Lindsey: There he goes again. Disconnected number.

I have been uncomfortably tight lipped about this because I've been investigating it. I've never once mentioned it. He doesn't know that I know he exists. He has no reason to think that.

Private Investigator 2: Okay. What's this guy's name? Let run him.

Got his information?

Private Investigator: Yeah.

Payne Lindsey: Just like they took my ID when I came in, the last time the kid was here, they took his ID too. She left the room for a second to go print it out. Was about to learn the real identity of George Harrison?

Private Investigator 2: There's our guy.

Payne Lindsey: What the hell is that?

Thanks for listening to episode 11. After episode 12 in two weeks, we're gonna take a short three week break and come back with episode 13 on February 27th. But don't worry. I'll be releasing some awesome bonus content every Monday before February 27th. Stay tuned this Thursday for another Q&A episode answering your questions from the voicemail line. Next Monday for Case Evidence and the following Monday for episode 12. Thanks for listening guys. See ya soon.